Keith Carlock clip

Quote:

---

Originally posted by PortJazz:
Keith has decent technique? I would like to see anyone here ghost the left hand like he does at blazing tempos. I went to a place called the 55 bar when I was in NY, and they were playing 16 grooves at around 140bpms and Keiths left hand was incredible. I have never seen anyone use it like that. His groove is not decent. In my opinion it's deep. No one who is merely decent gets hired by Sting and Donald Fagen, and Grover. He may not be a Gadd, but I think you're being too harsh, maybe even a bit jealous. Keith is a monster.
I also saw him in Denver with Sting and he did a fine job. I can't believe the egos on this board. It's ok to say he does nothing for you, but to belittle his feel and ability. Give me a break. Next time Sting calls you for a tour or Yamaha sets up a clinic tour for you, let me know.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny because I find that all those ghost note are a little be too much sometime...
It must be worse when the time is very speed !!!
I don't think that playing ghost is alway necessary for grooving.

Anyway, Keith plays great no doubt about that, but he bored me...
He has nothing to "eat" for me.

And playing with Sting or Fagen is great, I'm glad for him he did it, but it's not the main goal for every musicians to play with them !!!
A lot of would have a great career without play with them, thanks God for that.

Peace.

I can live with that response. I feel like having your own thing on an instrument, a completely original sound, that has it's origins, but yet is unique, and having artists like that wanting that sound on their albums and tours, is a lifelong accomplishment that most of us will never experience. I feel we should respect that. He's amazing at what he does.

I do respect his drumming and his career, as I'm sure everyone here does. We should all be so fortunate.

PortJazz, I know you're new here, Welcome aboard. This board
a bunch of drummers from different backgrounds with different tastes, that share a mutual admiration of great drumming and drummers of all types. We often don't all agree, and will often express those differences about an artist, without intending disrespect. Any criticism is just an opinion, and unlike many other boards, isn't meant as a personal attack on an artist.
Again, welcome aboard!

Brad

Quote:

---

Originally posted by PortJazz:
I can live with that response. I feel like having your own thing on an instrument, a completely original sound, that has it's origins, but yet is unique, and having artists like that wanting that sound on their albums and tours, is a lifelong accomplishment that most of us will never experience. I feel we should respect that. He's amazing at what he does.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with that. [img]cool.gif[/img]
And V too. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Keith is one of my favorite players when he can express himself freely. (Krantz or Oz)

He's got his own sound that has no Vinnie or Weckl in it at all thank God. There's too many of us as it is.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Vdrummer:
His grip, excessive motions, bouncing/bashing etc., strike me as a guy who plays well in spite of (not because of) his technique.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats right on.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 26, 2005 01:06 PM: Message edited by: shedder ]</font>

Yeah, i tend to go w V & shed on that one also. [JMO]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Derek DeFields:
Keith is one of my favorite players when he can express himself freely. (Krantz or Oz)

He's got his own sound that has no Vinnie or Weckl in it at all thank God. There's too many of us as it is.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LMAO - Heard that.
Agree AW. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
[I'm glad you said, "us..."] [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 26, 2005 02:39 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

What bashing? Have you ever head the guy live?? Vinnie bashes much more than Keith! Keith has one of the lightest touches on the drums I've seen. Actually, when I saw him live, it turned me off at first. His sound when not miked, is super thin and jazzy. No balls at all. He appear to bash, but if you ever saw him live, you would agree, he does not bash. One other thing I don't understand, is how some of you judge technique. Everyone's body is different, therefor everyone's technique is different. Not everyone can look the same behind the drums and make the same motion. He has amazing technique, and his bass drum accuracy is plain flawless.

sometimes, I'am just wondering about some posts.
what he is doing is OF COURSE NEW and INNOVATIVE.

he uses something like 8 over three and integrates this into a groove.

NO ONE did this before.
and that's the reason, why he is THE MOST innovative drummer of today,
because I can clearly say, WHAT is new and need only one sentcence to describe it.
and it's a simple but great idea.
sometimes I think, some of you just don't get the message, he send.

PJ, you just won't let it drop, huh?

Okay, we all make evaluations based on different criteria and compare players to one another. It's a pretty natural thing to do. Since I'm a drum teacher, it's an occupational hazard.

A student comes in, and I diagnose what the primary obstacles they have towards becoming a better player, or improving at a piece of music they're mutilating. I can usually do it within a few seconds of watching someone play. The better the player, the longer it takes. These problem areas with most drummers are usually lack of practice, playing too fast, poor grip, lack of reading skills, poor technical skills, weak dynamics, sparse rhythmic vocabulary, repetitiveness, lack of creativity, inability to phrase interestingly, etc. These are things I do for 60-ish students a week.

Yes, bodies are different. Hand size, proportion of fast to slow twitch muscle fiber varies, as does height, arm length etc, not to mention mental things like IQ, creativity, memory, mathematical skills, pattern recognition, impulsivity versus control, emotional traits, and personality type - all of which affect the way someone plays. So there of course, innate are differences from player to player.

So I don't know why you think it's unreasonable to evaluate a person's playing and technique based on their quality of grip, efficiency of motion, smoothness of playing, speed, accuracy, originality, creativity, or control. Also, a player may lack in some areas, yet make up much in others and still be a fine player. I think Keith sounds like a good player but he doesn't do a lot for me - from the clip that was posted. I also don't think he has
strong technical skills. Of course, my background and standards just may be different than yours. I have a rudimental snare background, but am principally a set drummer.

The use of the word "basher" referred to not simply the decible output of his drumming, but the apparent efficiency of his motions in general. I frankly think he moves a lot more than he needs to. I love powerful, yet efficient drummers like Vinnie. What of course really counts is musicality, groove and creativity. Keith seems to have those things to different degrees, but he still doesn't excite me that much as a player in that clip. But as I said, I haven't heard much of him with a band and would like to. If you have something you like him playing, or something that demonstrates what you feel is impressive technique - post it.

Brad